scramble to hide the evidence!

  Well initially I was willing to give William Lane Craig the benefit of the doubt, but I have to admit, the charity of that position is evaporating faster than dew in the desert!

  So a thread was started on the ‘Reasonable Faith’ forum (forum of William Lane Craigs website).

  In this drcraigvideos was making posts suggesting that he was fully legally endorsed by William Lane Craig to file these DMCAs.

  Now up till this point, I was happy to believe that, “well these ‘reasonable faith’ people, they’re not crazy creationists, they must be able to see the writing on the wall here”.  So, after one of the admins  (Philos, who lists his profession as ‘In academia’ (wlc?)) had locked the thread earlier this evening, I wrote him a personal message telling him of the shit that they were in.  How drcraigvideos claim to be legally acting on William Lane Craigs behalf made him legally culpable, and that drcraigvideos actions had a ring of truth about them given that:

1) drcraigvideos blog is directly linked on the reasonablefaith website.

2) drcraigvideos videos are directly linked to the reasonablefaith website.  Damn, you only have to click the links in the scrolling banner to find this out!

  I also gave him some brief background on why what drcraigvideos was doing was illegal, and why it was in their favor to take action on this themselves.  Lets be real, it is at this point unthinkable given the number of emails reasonablefaith must have received that they are not aware of the situation (I also left them a voice message and asked this admin, Philos, to pass on this message to WLC).  If William Lane Craig chooses to do nothing while someone acting in his name, and claiming with his permission is filing bogus DMCA claims against WLC critics, it is VERY challenging to find an academically charitable way to interpret William Lane Craigs behavior.

  So I come back an hour or so later, and what do I find?

1) I’ve been banned.  Cute! Being banned without a SINGLE post!

2) the ENTIRE thread of ‘Thunderf00t DMCAed in William Lane Craigs name’ has been deleted.

Can’t really screen cap something that’s not there, but look for this post yourself!

  I blame myself.  I had assumed that when dealing with ‘Professional Academic Philosophers’ that you might get some integrity.  Instead all I’ve seen is reasonablefaith using EXACTLY and VERBATIM the methods used by PCS those many moons ago.  Dig a hole, then try to delete everything incriminating as soon as possible, then claim it never happened.  Shit, I’ve not seem someone scramble to delete the damning data this quickly since a creationist first donned Joker make-up! Oh yes WLC, I have EVERYTHING recorded 🙂

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80 Responses to “ scramble to hide the evidence!”

  1. Prelude610 Says:

    Fascinating and disturbing turn this has taken.

    With all the other false DMCs, vote bots, attacks on, etc., it’s not a complete surprise that you’d run up against things of this ethical standard (DWF and Nephi are in completely different leagues), but it is surprising that someone as visible as WLC, and presumably his crew, would be among them.

    I think it is time to start going after these false DMC claims.

    I’m trying to imagine the media that could come out of this, with WLC’s name being dragged around in this mud. I’d think it would be nearly impossible afterwards for him to be able to publicly debate any credible atheist.

  2. Chris Says:

    Just signed up to Craigs site. Asked a simple question, lets see if I get banned. What intellectual cowards they are. Somehow I thought Craig might be different, but it would seem he’s cut from the same cloth. I emailed them as was suggested thinking they would want to take the high road. But no, into the gutter they went.

  3. Teehees Says:

    Would you expect anything less from these lying bastards? You must get to the bottom of this, because this isn’t just about some faceless anonymous youtube-using idiot who’s filing a false DMCA; he’s being backed by someone (WLC) who’s relatively well-known in philosophy circles, albeit not in the way he intended. Throw the book at them, and then the bookcase.

  4. Chris Says:

    You do not have permission to access this service. Please contact the administrator if you believe you should not be receiving this message. Be sure to mention your IP address, ————-.

    Fucking cowards.

  5. rkyeun Says:

    Punch them through the wall, TF.
    VFX was a punk kid who needed a lesson in manners.
    WLC can share a cell next to Hovind.

  6. Jake Says:

    This guy is one of the most publically recognised poster boys for apologists, and had the benefit of (appearing) not to be as utterly insane as people like Hovind and (once again appearing) to be an academic.
    The stupidity of his actions baffles me since he has so much to lose from the potential legal shitstorm this can brew and even if he gets out unsued his academic ethics could very well take a public pounding.
    It’s time to shatter some illusions.
    Obliterate him Thunderf00t.

  7. Brianna Says:

    do what needs to be done

  8. Martin Says:

    Surprised? Not at all. How do you think creationists have been able to keep their stupidity going? I doubt it is by playing fair or logical…

  9. corhen Says:

    PCS was an annoying brat, and that ended like it should have
    “OQ” WLC deserves to be persued to the full extent of the law!

  10. oO0E Says:


    Can you PLEASE prosecute these imbeciles to the fullest extent possible? By letting VFX slide you may have set a dangerous precedent that this cowardly, reprehensible behavior can go unchallenged.

    Would you be able to let your followers know what your plan may be? I understand you may want to keep that private. However, please consider what I, and others are saying. To be honest, drcraigvideos and reasonablefaith are probably laughing their asses off at this whole thing and chalking it up as another victory.

    I know there are many of us that would contribute toward legal action. I very much suspect drcraigvideos purgered himself by filing the false DMCA and not giving his real name. Hold his, and anyone else involved, ass to the fire and burn them back to the Stone Age, or in their case, the Iron Age, where their ridiculous, cowardly, and fascist beliefs belong.

    • Rigó Jancsi Says:

      Agree to most of what oO0E says, but… I’m not a follower. That word sounds like Tfoot really were Jesus, buying a cross at home depot.

      • Christopher Booth Says:

        Uh, that’s Holy Depot. You can get the Vera Cruz brand Crucifiction Cross in various sizes at Holy Depot. Of course, despite the demand for crosses throughout the Red States, the fact that “Vera Cruz” is Spanish makes the TrooCross brand (one size fits all) more popular in places where there are no Spanish-speaking people, such as Texas, Arizona, and so on.

  11. jackjohnson1212 Says:

    TF, You have a lot of support out here. I hope you will do all you can to show the world the truth about these people. “Two Citations” needs his ass kicking.

  12. Anonymous Says:

    Thunderf00t, false DMCAs have plagued the YouTube community for too long. Please take this individual to court. People will generally file false DMCAs knowing there are NO consequences de facto. If you are able to show that legal action can be taken against individuals who abuse the DMCA, the crime will happen less.

    Also, for the time being. Please assume good faith for Dr. Craig.

    • Christopher Booth Says:

      Why “assume good faith for Dr. Craig”? Have you heard “Dr.” Craig “debate”? To “assume good faith” for him is like assuming T. Rex used those teeth to open coconuts. He has three categories of debate technique: smarminess, fallacies, and lies. If we call the set of {smarminess, employment of fallacies, and lies} to be a subset of “turtle”, then in his case, it is turtles all the way down.

  13. MrKentHovind Says:

    ThunderF00t – how about you set up a little donation site? I would gladly spend a penny to see WLC take a little attitude re-adjustment.

    • dougal445 Says:

      A legal fund for this would be a good idea.

      I see a lot of people here baying for craigs blood, but seem to have little regard for the time money and effort this will take on thunderf00ts part.

      Set up the donation fund and see if these fans will put they’re money where there mouth is instead of letting thunderf00t carry the whole load.

  14. Shakeval Says:

    Hey Thunderfoot,
    Looked all over the forum and i saw neither hide nor hair of anything to do with you or a DMCA, either it’s being systematically torn down left, right and center or I’m looking in the wrong place……it’s kinda sad, but not unexpected

  15. Rkiver Says:

    I would say don’t let it slide.

    Also good faith in Dr Craig. I’ll be honest, I’ve yet to see one of those who support Creationism as much as they do ever show anything worthy of “good faith”. They have bad faith, they have hypocrisy in spades, but good faith I’ve yet to see.

    Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. It’s time an example was made.

  16. Bardiche Says:

    where is donation site i want to contribute 😀

  17. Anonymous Says:

    No mercy dude! Go after drcraigsvideos and WLC himself with every weapon in your arsenal. No negotiations this time. Give them a deadline for response then file suit.

  18. Prelude610 Says:

    Google “false DMCA”. A successful suit against Diebold resulted in a $125k award. Youtube cases doubtfully will involve those sorts of funds but it will cover legal fees. Other finds included a posting describing how to hide your real DOXs when contesting the DMCA.

  19. XchristianHeathen Says:

    Thunderf00t I hope you can take action that does have some bite on this matter. I would like for you to make your case why this is a violation of the DMCA. I understand he is using this to suppress free speech and criticism of on ol Two Citation, but I think you need to clarity exactly why its illegal. He says he owns the rights. Does he? If he some how proves he owns the rights to this material how does that affect this situation. I followed the VFX thing closely. Is this the same?

    • Prelude610 Says:

      Good point. It is possible the WLC does not own the rights to those source videos. Just because you are in it doesn’t mean it is yours. There was a DMCA complaint once by a guy who claimed the use of his photo, taken from a Fox web site, was an infringement. The photo was owned by Fox so he failed in that respect.

      I think the illegal part is that when the DMCA is submitted it is made clear that it is perjury to lie in it. The other issue is a “bad faith” complaint, which it seems this one is.

      If you make it, the copyright is yours, even if you do not register it, but I don’t think you can sue unless it is a registered copyright. Nevertheless, copyrights allow for fair use by others, for commentary, etc.

      I read of one false DMCA suit that included a significant judgement against them, in addition to losses and legal fees.

      Even if money is not awarded, can you imagine WLC’s reputation after the media reports that he’s using DMCAs to suppress criticism of his views?

  20. Vyck Says:

    T.fool you are such a “drama quine” !!!

  21. DogmasDemise Says:

    Well, well look what I found:

    An interview with drcraigvideos/John Leonard from September 28, 2011.

    “Well, I made this channel to explore the thoughts of William Lane Craig. It was really just a personal study of mine.”

    So right there, evidence that he was not affiliated with WLC (at least not at first when he started out on YouTube).

    “What does William Lane Craig think of your channel?
    William Lane Craig loves it. He left a link to the channel in To me, that’s a great compliment because when you have someone you respect so much actually affirming your channel, you know you’re doing something right. But my channel belongs to Reasonable Faith. I mean, I’m only using all their material! Craig is quite liberal with the videos I upload and edit. He knows I’m good for it.”

    “But my channel belongs to Reasonable Faith.” is obviously not used to mean in a LEGAL sense.

    DrCraigVideos has permission to use WLC’s videos, but there’s nothing written here about “being an authorized agent to act on his behalf”.

    He is nothing but a fanboy, not a legal representative.

    He had no right to file a DMCA in WLC’s name.

    WLC should sue him too tbh, it’s a shame he seems unresponsive while his lackeys from Reasonable Faith ban people who ask questions. Really poor handling of the situation.

    • Winston Jen Says:

      That linik doesn’t seem to work. Could you perhaps post a screenshot?

      Addendum: I see VyckRo’s 3rd-grade education is showing its colours yet again.

    • Anonymous Says:

      yikes that guy is such a dick and how dishonest of him say the things that he said!

  22. Anonymous Says:

    Thunderf00t, file a lawsuit. You’ll win and bankrupt this individual. He needs to learn the consequences of perjury.

  23. Vyck Says:

    I will soon have a very interesting video on this T.Fool guy, and his drama.

    • Anonymous Says:

      Dude, you’re either delusional or a troll. I hope for your sake that you’re a troll.

      Nobody can honestly say that TF is in the wrong. Go read up on the DMCA.

      17 U.S.C. § 107

      “Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

      the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
      the nature of the copyrighted work;
      the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
      the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

      The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.”

      Thunderf00t is protected under the criticism and comment section. No where does it say that you have to CITE a source. Also, in before you say, well you can’t use 30 minutes of a movie. Thunderf00t used less than 2 minutes of a debate that was longer than 1 hour. In this case, it is fair use.

      • DogmasDemise Says:

        Also, what the hell does “citing source” mean (strictly legally speaking). I assume the copyright holder is William Lane Craig, well there we go, his name is mentioned anyway.

    • Winston Jen Says:

      Educate yourself on the DMCA and fair use, VyckRo. drcraigvideos is a criminal.

      Although I suppose you believe the ends justify the means when it comes to saving souls. Your videos demonstrate this decisively.

    • dougal445 Says:

      if this is youtubes vyckro.
      Ill believe you can make an interesting video when i see it!
      Thus far all ive seen from you is laughable, delusional, staggeringly dishonest, nonsensicle, dribbling shit!

  24. AnticitizenX Says:

    If this shit hits the fan, I will personally donate money to the legal fund. I do not always agree with TF, but I am willing to put my dollars on the line to defend his right to criticize. This issue affects all of us, so I hope others are willing to do the same. WLC is a slimy weasel who may potentially push this to court. He has the dollars and the pride to do so. Fingers crossed he sees reason.

  25. Shakeval Says:

    Can’t we just get our Doctor, The f00t, to do battle with their doctor, in some sort of money making entertainment ‘game’ or something, the f00t does a shit load of physical stuff and as such should do better than the old man hopped up on illegal substances from his ‘god’. . . damnit, mud wrestling or something

  26. Mex5150 Says:

    Like most people here, I say throw the book at the weasel, and also like most people here, I’d be more than happy to throw a few quid into the legal fund to see this happen.

  27. Christopher Booth Says:

    I am not able to help financially now or in the near future, but I would like to help. If you need proofreading or some such task done, I would be pleased to take part.

  28. Winston Jen Says:

    For those who are interested, here is a link to an interview with drcraigvideos himself (although it could be a complete fabrication from drcraigvideos himself):

    thunderf00t, if you want me to email you a copy of the document, please feel free to contact me.

  29. Mike Says:

    I posted on the ReasonableFaith site asking about the DMCA notices. My message was polite and not offensive in any way.

    Within an hour I was banned, the post taken down, and my account deleted.

  30. Timelessapologist Says:

    Philosophy 101 for they layman philosopher Thunderf00t:

    Oh dear thunderf00t you will never learn until you pick up a beginners book on philosophy. I would suggest that the very feeling you have of unjustice is one of the keys to seeing there is more than just a purposeless, meaningless, valueless evolutionary process at work here. So your post clashes with your standing on morality (relativism) which in conclusion entails your crying is nothing more than a meaningless opinion. Unless however what you ASSUME Dr. Craig did is OBJECTIVELY wrong.

  31. Timelessapologist Says:

    One more thing Thunderf00t, I believe it is time for you to step up to the plate. How about we raise the stakes a bit by commiting to one of these 2 options.

    1. Write up a peer reviewed objection to one of Dr. Craig’s arguments in a Philosophy Journal so one can take you seriously in academia or

    2. Challenge Dr. Craig to a formal debate just as many of your academic “Nature did it” advocate peers have (and don’t cower away like your hero Richard Dawkins). I would hope you have gotten a little better since your stutter session with Ray Comfort, but this is where it shows you are SERIOUS and not just an obsessed troll who is all talk and no game.

    I’m sure an intelligent Youtube Scientist can “easily” handle a Christian Philosopher with low H-index citations…or you can just hide behind your Youtube Videos. Balls in your court now smart guy!

    • Anonymous Says:

      You arsehat!
      Willie two cites entire act is an obuscarion of the fact that his arguement is entirely vacuos.
      Start out with an unjustified asertion (that the we acrually know the conditions of the start of the universe in its current state and that the laws of the universe are the same as today)
      Then pile on top of that a load of non sequeters, special pleadings, catagory errors and further unevidenced assertions, . Alll wrapped up in nonesense in such away that it makes it difficult to unpack the bullshit at the moment of debate.
      How can anybody be taken in by this dishonest, imoral cunt?

    • AnticitizenX Says:

      I’ve got a PhD and a YouTube channel. I even work for a university. I’ll debate Craig. Bring it on.

  32. VyckRo Says:

    What Thunderf00 does not want you to see!

    • dougal445 Says:

      Just watched and I stick by my earlier comment.
      Fuck! Thats 20 minutes of my life I cant get back.

    • Yuma Says:

      Hey VyckRo retard. One of the quirks about being a retard is that the retard is oblivious to his situation. That person really can’t be blamed, only pitied.

      You typed this phrase under your YouTube video: “Thunderf00t might try to flag this video.” Only a person who doesn’t understand, or can’t understand, would state that. You using psychological projection, which seems real to you, but it is a false conclusion.

      FWIW, I suggest that you reevaluate you thinking… and conclusions.


  33. Shakeval Says:


    dude, seriously, you are wasting time…….i’m also sure you are either a plant or a troll

  34. Jack Sowter (@JackSowter) Says:

    This thread on the Reasonable Faith forum is a discussion about the moderation of the forum and it includes a statement by the moderator on why the DMCA discussion was removed, and how the moderator made the decision.

  35. Shakeval Says:

    did Philos himself admit to being Dr. Craig? looked like it right at the end of that post

  36. William Lane Craig vs Thunderfoot « The Gaming Atheist Says:

    […] What is in doubt is if the person making the claim has the blessing to make it by Craig. If not, that person can get in trouble in the courts. If so, well then Craig is wrong and we will have to see what comes of it. Thunderf00t tried contacting Craig with no luck. […]

  37. Yuma Says:

    “Can the US Army embrace atheists?”

    I closed my YT account (and Facebook[which is out of control] and Twitter, etc.) because of my concern related to Google’s new privacy policy as a matter of principle. Can’t find any other way to communicate with you.

    Sandwich was interesting and about the subject matter of this article from February 3rd. Thought you might find this interesting and that you may have missed it.

  38. Bozla Says:

    Well, the DMCA problem is clearly a YouTube systematic issue. They clearly need serious (legal) arm twisting to sort it out:

  39. jeetkunedo2029 Says:

    • Yuma Says:

      jeetkunedo2029 surely you don’t expect anyone to click your link in the age of viruses and malware on faith, do you? This is Thunderf00t’s blog, not the uneducated.

  40. Anonymous Says:

    Sounds like a whole lot of whinning to me. I mean who really cares.

    However I assume they thought Mr TF was a troll, this entire thread is evidence that he is fact is.

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